Pagan Christianity Book discussion

Comment by Ryan Huling on March 10, 2009 at 1:21pm

Let's start with introductions and with how we each view the book so far.
I also want to be clear that the book is Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna. If you don't have the book you can get it at Frank Viola's site. ptmin.com. My tenative plan is to discuss the book chapter by chapter going back and forth on key points in each.

Comment by Rod on March 10, 2009 at 1:46pm

I think the chapter about sermons is pertinent. Most Christians consider that to be the religion the "essence of Christianity" as it were. How can you have religion, house church without sermons and a statement of beliefs and ministers and hierachy. Yet Viola reveals it is not a original part of Christianity. this seems infuriates clergy men who if they accept have no role. Prior to this equipped with false concepts of church offices they are happily doing what they think God would ordain. Though maybe this isn't the first chapter.

I have given a very few sermons and once I got over my freight was shocked to see the blank faces looking up at me.

Comment by Rod on March 10, 2009 at 3:22pm

The thing about sermons, dissertations or lectures is they come down from the Greek system of knowledge or the academy and are the staple of our system of knowledge disbursement. So it seems good. Most of American culture comes from the English who absorbed Greek from being a former Roman colony. Many owe thier livelihood from sitting and absorbing knowledge so it seems the right thing to do in church. At one time in the march of history so to speak the Greek culture, the Greek library and the Greek language and many other things were in conflict with Hebrew(s). It came to resolve itself possibly in the church or what we have come to view as the church. OK how we view the book. which is positive. For me it explained so many things I had noticed and wanted to do something about. We were told to love one another. But we had the order of the service right and the sermon was "good."

Comment by Elaine Bateman on March 10, 2009 at 3:31pm

My husband and I were discussing the timing of this book in our lives and it is amazing how our Savior has the right time for everything! My husband had come to the conclusions found in Pagan Christianity before I did and then here is this beautifully written book that just put's everything in perspective at the right time! I am looking forward to finishing the book and then discussing Pagan Christianity! We are letting those who have been perplexed by our stand in in what "church" really is to order the book! Thanks for this discussion!

Comment by Ryan Huling on March 10, 2009 at 3:43pm

Hi Elaine and husband. I'm glad you joined. For us; my wife and I, we had left a church and really wanted to start a house church. We have had such good experiences in a small church and with small groups that we wanted to try the house church thing out. Shortly after that I came across Frank's site on Simplechurch and checked it out. First thing I thought was: Didn't he used to be a baseball player or something? I then read some of his articles on house church and was really impressed. I then ordered Pagan C. and Reimagining Church. And as Frank Says: Pagan is not meant to be a stand alone book. After reading Pagan one should read Reimaging as it basically completes the picture, so to speak. I was blown away by Pagan C. I think I devoured it in 3-4 days or something. It put a lot of pieces together for me. I'm still pretty new to this stuff myself. It will be great to learn and grow together with all who participate in this group.

Comment by Frankie Joubert on March 10, 2009 at 3:47pm

I think to me the great thing about this book was this; seeing "how deep the rabbit hole goes." My wife and I knew that organic church was the way to go, and we saw the flaws in IC, but the shock was to realise how much was all just tradition. This is what the book has highlighted for us beautifully. So, long before we knew of OC and all this, God was already speaking to us a lot on this.

I remember now, one thing God clearly said to us, (and this was in a dream again) that we are not to conduct ourselves as other pastors do. Not to knock any group or denomination, but it was about the word of faith way of doing things. God said that we would not have this little confession of faith written down on getting all the things we want. You know, name it and claim it etc. God wanted us to trust Him for our provisions, and to "seek first the Kingdom of God, and His rigtheousness, and all these things will be added unto you." Everything would flow out of us knowing Him, trusting Him and loving Him. Not on a manipulation of trying to force God to honour His promises. And by the way, I emphatically believe in the promises of God. :)

Comment by Elaine Bateman on March 10, 2009 at 3:56pm

We have both books and a house of 13! Every minute I get I pick it up but after my Bible study of course! Smile! All of us at home are reaching for Pagan Christianity when it is just resting! Our Savior is just so amazing and I do thank the Lord for Frank for allowing him to put all our thoughts on paper and using His Word to back it up! This time around after opening our home for a long time as a supplement it seemed for buildings the Lord finally opened my eyes to home fellowship all the time and the freedom I feel today after knowing Jesus for almost 40 years is incredible so as we read Pagan Christianity don't give up on others who are still searching because they know something is lacking in the buildings. Keep doing what the Lord has shown you first through His Word and the support from this great book! Thank you Ryan for your encouragement!

Comment by William Boland on March 12, 2009 at 8:43am

I first read Pagan Christianity when the first edition came out a few years back, and was deeply stirred (although at the time I was still in the IC). I was doing what the IC calls a Daughter Work church plant. After a few years of struggling, praying, fasting and studying the Organic Church concept I finally left the IC, and then I picked up the new verison and read it. I knew in my heart I could not read the newer version while still in the IC. God was stirring me to leave, and so we did last August. I then bought five more copies and have given four of them out to others in our group, and got one copy in reserve for the right time and person. Great book, plenty of research and I look forward to this discussion

Comment by Janeen Puckett on April 14, 2009 at 11:45am

Just want to introduce myself. My name is Janeen. I just read PC last week (read chapters 11 and 12 twice). I have not heard nor thought of these ideas before, but I'm open to learning more. I am the mother of 2 girls (ages 2 and 1). My husband has not read PC, but Sunday while driving for about 90 minutes, we discussed the basic contents. We are both dissatisfied with the IC (though we deeply love our IC family). We are not sure where God is leading us now, except we know He is calling us to LIVE in Him as we have not done before. I am sincerely looking forward to participating in your discussions here. Yesterday, I read a very good article by Frank Viola. It is short and I highly recommend it. http://www.housechurchresource.org/findingchurch.html. If you read it, you will see where I feel I am at the moment. Since I have been unable to immediately locate an OC in my area that truly operates organically, I feel I'm in the learning and growing stage. Would welcome your comments and thoughts. Blessings!

Comment by Ryan Huling on April 24, 2009 at 3:53pm

Tithing's up next. Now that's an interesting topic. Can't wait for that one.

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