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Ryan Huling

Pagan Christianity Book discussion

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Pagan Christianity Book discussion

Let's explore the roots of our church practices together and talk about how this book has impacted us and challenged us. This book rocked my world. And I've heard others say something similar.

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Hello everyone and welcome,

My idea here is to take a look together at the book Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna. I would like to discuss the various subjects addressed in the book such as: Church building, Order of Worship, Sermon, Pastor. Tithing, etc.

I would like to also look at what the bible has to say about these things. A logical approach would be to go in order by chapters and discuss each chapter. Let's try that.

We could start by introducing ourselves and sharing our basic ideas about the book at this point.

Discussion Forum

William Boland

Chapter 10 Christian education

Started by William Boland. Last reply by Scott McCrae Feb 23, 2011. 9 Replies

Cindy Skillman

Chapter 9: Diluting the Sacraments: The Lord's Supper

Started by Cindy Skillman. Last reply by Cindy Skillman Feb 12, 2011. 7 Replies

Ryan Huling

Ch 8: Tithing and Clergy Salaries

Started by Ryan Huling. Last reply by Mark Collings Feb 7, 2011. 22 Replies

Comment Wall

Ryan Huling Comment by Ryan Huling on March 10, 2009 at 1:21pm
Let's start with introductions and with how we each view the book so far.
I also want to be clear that the book is Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna. If you don't have the book you can get it at Frank Viola's site. ptmin.com. My tenative plan is to discuss the book chapter by chapter going back and forth on key points in each.
Rod Comment by Rod on March 10, 2009 at 1:46pm
I think the chapter about sermons is pertinent. Most Christians consider that to be the religion the "essence of Christianity" as it were. How can you have religion, house church without sermons and a statement of beliefs and ministers and hierachy. Yet Viola reveals it is not a original part of Christianity. this seems infuriates clergy men who if they accept have no role. Prior to this equipped with false concepts of church offices they are happily doing what they think God would ordain. Though maybe this isn't the first chapter.

I have given a very few sermons and once I got over my freight was shocked to see the blank faces looking up at me.
Rod Comment by Rod on March 10, 2009 at 3:22pm
The thing about sermons, dissertations or lectures is they come down from the Greek system of knowledge or the academy and are the staple of our system of knowledge disbursement. So it seems good. Most of American culture comes from the English who absorbed Greek from being a former Roman colony. Many owe thier livelihood from sitting and absorbing knowledge so it seems the right thing to do in church. At one time in the march of history so to speak the Greek culture, the Greek library and the Greek language and many other things were in conflict with Hebrew(s). It came to resolve itself possibly in the church or what we have come to view as the church. OK how we view the book. which is positive. For me it explained so many things I had noticed and wanted to do something about. We were told to love one another. But we had the order of the service right and the sermon was "good."
Elaine Bateman Comment by Elaine Bateman on March 10, 2009 at 3:31pm
My husband and I were discussing the timing of this book in our lives and it is amazing how our Savior has the right time for everything! My husband had come to the conclusions found in Pagan Christianity before I did and then here is this beautifully written book that just put's everything in perspective at the right time! I am looking forward to finishing the book and then discussing Pagan Christianity! We are letting those who have been perplexed by our stand in in what "church" really is to order the book! Thanks for this discussion!
Ryan Huling Comment by Ryan Huling on March 10, 2009 at 3:43pm
Hi Elaine and husband. I'm glad you joined. For us; my wife and I, we had left a church and really wanted to start a house church. We have had such good experiences in a small church and with small groups that we wanted to try the house church thing out. Shortly after that I came across Frank's site on Simplechurch and checked it out. First thing I thought was: Didn't he used to be a baseball player or something? I then read some of his articles on house church and was really impressed. I then ordered Pagan C. and Reimagining Church. And as Frank Says: Pagan is not meant to be a stand alone book. After reading Pagan one should read Reimaging as it basically completes the picture, so to speak. I was blown away by Pagan C. I think I devoured it in 3-4 days or something. It put a lot of pieces together for me. I'm still pretty new to this stuff myself. It will be great to learn and grow together with all who participate in this group.
Frankie Joubert Comment by Frankie Joubert on March 10, 2009 at 3:47pm
I think to me the great thing about this book was this; seeing "how deep the rabbit hole goes." My wife and I knew that organic church was the way to go, and we saw the flaws in IC, but the shock was to realise how much was all just tradition. This is what the book has highlighted for us beautifully. So, long before we knew of OC and all this, God was already speaking to us a lot on this.

I remember now, one thing God clearly said to us, (and this was in a dream again) that we are not to conduct ourselves as other pastors do. Not to knock any group or denomination, but it was about the word of faith way of doing things. God said that we would not have this little confession of faith written down on getting all the things we want. You know, name it and claim it etc. God wanted us to trust Him for our provisions, and to "seek first the Kingdom of God, and His rigtheousness, and all these things will be added unto you." Everything would flow out of us knowing Him, trusting Him and loving Him. Not on a manipulation of trying to force God to honour His promises. And by the way, I emphatically believe in the promises of God. :)
Elaine Bateman Comment by Elaine Bateman on March 10, 2009 at 3:56pm
We have both books and a house of 13! Every minute I get I pick it up but after my Bible study of course! Smile! All of us at home are reaching for Pagan Christianity when it is just resting! Our Savior is just so amazing and I do thank the Lord for Frank for allowing him to put all our thoughts on paper and using His Word to back it up! This time around after opening our home for a long time as a supplement it seemed for buildings the Lord finally opened my eyes to home fellowship all the time and the freedom I feel today after knowing Jesus for almost 40 years is incredible so as we read Pagan Christianity don't give up on others who are still searching because they know something is lacking in the buildings. Keep doing what the Lord has shown you first through His Word and the support from this great book! Thank you Ryan for your encouragement!
William Boland Comment by William Boland on March 12, 2009 at 8:43am
I first read Pagan Christianity when the first edition came out a few years back, and was deeply stirred (although at the time I was still in the IC). I was doing what the IC calls a Daughter Work church plant. After a few years of struggling, praying, fasting and studying the Organic Church concept I finally left the IC, and then I picked up the new verison and read it. I knew in my heart I could not read the newer version while still in the IC. God was stirring me to leave, and so we did last August. I then bought five more copies and have given four of them out to others in our group, and got one copy in reserve for the right time and person. Great book, plenty of research and I look forward to this discussion
Janeen Puckett Comment by Janeen Puckett on April 14, 2009 at 11:45am
Just want to introduce myself. My name is Janeen. I just read PC last week (read chapters 11 and 12 twice). I have not heard nor thought of these ideas before, but I'm open to learning more. I am the mother of 2 girls (ages 2 and 1). My husband has not read PC, but Sunday while driving for about 90 minutes, we discussed the basic contents. We are both dissatisfied with the IC (though we deeply love our IC family). We are not sure where God is leading us now, except we know He is calling us to LIVE in Him as we have not done before. I am sincerely looking forward to participating in your discussions here. Yesterday, I read a very good article by Frank Viola. It is short and I highly recommend it. http://www.housechurchresource.org/findingchurch.html. If you read it, you will see where I feel I am at the moment. Since I have been unable to immediately locate an OC in my area that truly operates organically, I feel I'm in the learning and growing stage. Would welcome your comments and thoughts. Blessings!
Ryan Huling Comment by Ryan Huling on April 24, 2009 at 3:53pm
Tithing's up next. Now that's an interesting topic. Can't wait for that one.

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Cindy Skillman Ryan Huling Rod Frankie Joubert Janeen Puckett Gordon Brock Scott McCrae Mark Collings William Boland Jim London Nathan Lambshead Elaine Bateman Nigel Fareed Mohammed Paul childs Terry Johns Mark Beeson Ken Webber Shaun Adams Jason James Monserate Steve Rush Garrett Eunice Coughlin Jason Dalnoki Anthony Ehrhardt Alberto Martinez Dorita Smith Sharito Bodine Daniel & Theresa Norlin Chanson Tia Malinda Euell Corinne Joubert
 
 
 

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Darrell Meeks replied to Darrell Meeks's discussion 'Tithe-Whipped'
I don't know of any books off the top of my head, but I know they're out there. One place to start is the following link: Tithing Article I'll find some more resources to share with you as time allows. DM
9 hours ago
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Michael Hartson replied to Darrell Meeks's discussion 'Tithe-Whipped'
Very interesting.  If you know of some book or material that dives a little deeper into the subject, I would appreciate it.  Send my a message if you know of anything.
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I just uploaded a song called "Be Still My Soul" on my page that I re-mastered, re-instrumented, added effects, and made a simple midi file sound fantastic. Enjoy
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Darrell Meeks replied to Darrell Meeks's discussion 'Tithe-Whipped'
Michael, I certainly understand what you're saying. Very few ministers ever speak the TRUTH about the tithe. In OT times, the tithe was the inheritance of the Levites who were not allowed to make a living by any means as was common among the…
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Marvin Lorenzana left a comment for Jossimar Diaz-Castro
Jossimar, bienvenido al blog de MHI, espero que aqui encuentres informacion relevante sobre como desarrollar discipulos, lideres e iglesias utilizando una proceso estrategico simple/organico. Bendiciones!
15 hours ago
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Michael Hartson replied to Darrell Meeks's discussion 'Tithe-Whipped'
I have seen a lot of sermons on the tithing, or giving; some of them very strange.  I remember some time a go when my adult daughter was a teen, and going through a very difficult time, was being hauled off in a police car. We called the pastor…
16 hours ago
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Michael Hartson replied to Joshua Westcott's discussion 'Challenges of the Small Town'
yes, Quite true. "Doing Church" in house with out the Organic content, is just switching buildings.  We as people tend to compartmentalize areas of our life. Church in this part, school in this part, marriage in this part,…
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Darrell Meeks replied to Darrell Meeks's discussion 'Tithe-Whipped'
Amen to that.   It's also of interes that those who had, for example, only nine lambs or calves born in a year, they were not required to hand over anything.   One thing I will say is that I thoroughly appreciate the OT system of…
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Catherine Seebald replied to Joshua Westcott's discussion 'Challenges of the Small Town'
You're so right, Darrell!  Many of the house churches I'm familiar with are not organic expressions of church but are really just institutional church in miniature.  As Frank Viola says, organic church (OC) is one of the most…
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Michael Hartson commented on Jim London's blog post 'What do we do when there is no group to join?'
When I think about the most significant points in my Christian walk, they did not take place in an organized, institutionalized environment.  It was incidental to my world, but wholly intentional by God. 
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Michael Hartson replied to Michael Hartson's discussion 'Why Can't Christian's Hang Out?'
Sure, it's intentional.  God is responsible for the Results, we are responsible for the action.  God asks us to share our lives, talk to others about him, love others.  Who gets saved, or what a person does or does not do or what…
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Jim London replied to Michael Hartson's discussion 'Why Can't Christian's Hang Out?'
Michael, you are sharing and asking about something that is very crucial. Often the pattern is "We don't want to be that programmed meeting all designed and led by the fellow hired to make it all run smoothly. We want to be more…
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Bienvenido Sergio al blog de la Iniciativa Menonita Hispana (MHI) cuyo enfoque es ofrecer herramientas sobre como desarrollar díscipulos, líderes e iglesias utilizando un proceso estrategico simple. Espero que disfrute de toda la…
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