Ch 8: Tithing and Clergy Salaries

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul childs on April 30, 2009 at 12:37pm

First of all thank you,
Your responses are humble, honest, yet I hear the same cry in your hearts. you want God, you want to see the power of God, I'm am so greatfull i have found this group. I cannot stand when people write scriptures or pretend to be something there not. The truth in America is that we do not see the power of God at work, the second truth is we are asleep spiratually because of all the comforts, distractions, and materialism that we cannot seem to avoid in this country. So will we choose to give up all this for God so we can do his will or will we sit back and let other countries experience Him while we enjoy our stuff. I have a feeling we are moving closer to desiring and seeking Him. I also feel he's stripping us of our securities because He knows it's best for us. Please people let's choose Him and wake up and ignite our passion for Him, before He takes everything away and thats all were left with. If I my children only came over to visit because they had to, I'm not sure how good I would feel.
Wake up o people from our slumber, lets become a fully devoted sons and daughters who will storm the gates of hell to take back the captives, those were taking back will be many who are just spiritually sleeping, thay say they love Jesus but there sleeping in a state of coma, there sitting in the pews about ready to die from another message from another pastor who is also spiritually asleep. my favorite, I heard a pastor give a message on acts and how we need to be like that, he then went on to say how he's ministering to people on mafia wars. hmmmm God can use anything anywhere anytime, but come on
let''s be a people who are selfless, passionate, fully devoted, true community, risk-taking faith, willing to lay down our lives for our father, that was christianity 101. he who follows me must lay down their life. hmmmm or how about the sermon on the mount. He walks up and starts preaching 2 minutes in he starts talking about how we will be persecuted because of Him, yet he says rejoice and be Glad. wow who is this Guy, Yeah right who wants to die and be happy, yet He says it. ok people let's wake people up, I love you guys and am so excited to see what God does. remember the alarm clock will be tempting, calling in sick will always be a choice, pulling the covers up over your head, or maybe saying la la la la la. I say no let's band togetehr, let's throw cold water on each other let's sound the alarm, let's go to battle against th enemy of our time, let's throw off everything that entangles us and pursue Him with everything we have.
WAKE UP WAKE UP.
How will we win this battle
1. recognize and confess we ourselves are asleep and need to confess, repent and wake up. Relax the good news is peter had this same problem, remember when Jesus needed him to pray, yet he couldn't stay awake even one hour.
2. band together with passion, laughter, and focus
3. Prayer, prayer,prayer
4. fasting, this will help kill our desires for all the comforts that have plagued us, we need to leave Egypt and go through the desert. The desert where we will say to ourselves, but those leaks and onions taste so good. or in our case, the steaks, the fast food, the music, the video games, the, houses, the jobs, Hope you get my point. why would anyone want to go through a desert. Well You only go if you have decided that He's better the what you have or you realize how important it is to save the people in bondage who are headed to hell.
5. If we get that far then i have a sneaky suspicion we will be well on our way to starting a revival, hmmm revival, revive, what would we need to revive oh people sleeping who aren't breathing. that make. he will start to lead this great nation again.
6. For anyone who is mad at me because i didnt mention reading the bible, i was assuming that was a given.

I am so excited to find fellow warriors, I NEED YOU and WE NEED JESUS.
Fan the flame, knock over a few tables, call out a few religious people just start in your own home first.
may God speak to you today and may we trust him today.
2. Band together

Permalink Reply by Cindy Skillman on April 30, 2009 at 1:30pm

Hi Everyone,

Well, the group is officially started. I called it "Christ, The Wisdom and Power of God. If you're on my friend list, you should receive an invitation. If not, please consider yourself invited.

God bless, Cindy

Permalink Reply by Janeen Puckett on May 13, 2009 at 12:53pm

Wow! It's been a while since I've been on here and I see you all have been very chatty on this topic! I read some and skimmed some.

My feeling is that though I initially disagreed with FV, I ended up finding his arguments compelling. I don't think we should NOT give. But do we need to give money just to keep a church building and pastoral staff going?

How much more effective could our giving be if we used it to reach out to our communities. I haven't attended a house church yet, but I can imagine a scenario in which someone in the church has a need or knows someone who has a need, and because we haven't been funnelling our money into a building, we could take an immediate offering and meet that need. Or we could go to the store and buy food to take to someone in need. Or we could help pay someone's medical bill. Wouldn't that be so much more like the heart of Christ as displayed in the NT?

Some of you may not like my references to Judaism, but again there is relevance. Though the Jews were required to give a tithe and are no longer required to do so in the same way due to destruction of the Temple and dispertion into the Diaspora, Jewish people are noted to be very charitable. They give to charity and part of their Shabbat (Sabbath) observance, as well as during much of their other observances. Also, they believe in helping the needy in their community. If we want to know what giving to others is really all about, we would do well to observe the Jews. (Jesus was Jewish, remember?)

Permalink Reply by Nathan Lambshead on May 13, 2009 at 4:49pm

I have one publication out, and I am sure it will be the only one I ever get published. One of my chapters is about my thoughts on tithing. I wish I could re-write it, but I would not change the chapter that much. Giving is what I would call it though.
Yes, I also believed what I was taught since birth about tithing.
My book is a very basic short easy read on attitude changes that I learned in order to stay on coarse rather than be tempted by the world and walk away from God. It was not for seasoned believers (other than those who are seasoned with bland salt)
The premise of my book I would not change. God was definitely directing me. My chapter on tithing was not about the aw, but about learning how to be a giver and not trusting in our bank accounts.
As with all of us, I think we would re-write much of our lives if I could, including my book. It would only be amendments though, and not a complete change. I still get contacts here and there from people who read my book and are blessed, beyond what I would have imagined. So, I have to trust God that His heart was in it, and his Will can still go forth out of the stumblings of a child.
I see Tithing (In the standard traditional church teaching as it is today) as wrong to the same degree I see so many other areas wrong in the IC today.

Let's learn who our Father really is together shall we?

Nathan

Permalink Reply by Nathan Lambshead on May 13, 2009 at 5:19pm

My book is called "Withstanding the Storm"
Yes, I would re-write much of it, but like I said, only an amendment. I was not promoting church, since I was already dealing with questions inside about that. Some have been answered, so my book would take on a new path, but most of it is still very sound, and if a person would gleen from it I know they would start on the right path. Maybe that is all any books written by man can do?
i have had some tremendous responses, even though only a few hundred sold.
You can find it here: http://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=1-5988640-7-6
as well as a nice little interview with some reviews (two from unsaved people and one from a saved person) on cbd site:
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=864076...

Don't give up on your book. Write as you are led. Just don't rush it, as life is a stream not a lake.

Nathan

Permalink Reply by Rod on January 5, 2010 at 8:27pm

Agreed Larry it's just one of the leg that holds up the instition of the institional church. take away that leg and the whole thing topples. Thanks for keeping the discussion going.-Rod

Permalink Reply by Scott McCrae on February 6, 2011 at 5:27pm

Just finished the chapter on tithing. I think one of the main problems of money and the church is money changes the dynamic of our ability to look to God. When we are paying tithes to look good in the eyes of other believers we can't have a pure heart towards God.  And when you minister for the Lord and get paid for it there enters a double motive. This double motive hinders the Holy Spirit moving in the pastors life. Though I am sure some leaders have risen above the lure of money.  We are to be content with what we have. Phil 4:11

 

I have paid tithes down through the years. I didn't believe it was a requirement for us in the new covenant. I decided though when I went to a small church that I would pay 10% to the church because they needed it to pay expenses. After deciding this I ended up giving more money than I had before. So in my experience it has been a good thing.

 

The power of the organic church has so much potential. All people free to minister. And money being free to go into ministry instead of expenses and salaries.

 

There is a danger as with all freedom and grace, that not paying tithes will casue people to not give. Hording money for themselves will hurt them. Giving as an avenue of growth is important. It is a sign of maturity when one can give joyfully.

 

With freedom there needs to be responsibility and purpose.

Permalink Reply by Cindy Skillman on February 6, 2011 at 5:57pm

Well, this is true of all things. Freedom needs responsibility and purpose -- very true. However if the most important thing (Jesus) is our life and the head of our fellowship, things like giving take care of themselves.

Permalink Reply by Scott McCrae on February 6, 2011 at 7:29pm

Cindy, Good comments.

 

I personally use willingness to give as one barometer of my spiritual health.

Permalink Reply by Mark Collings on February 7, 2011 at 7:32am

Historically tithing came into the IC in the dark ages when the church inherited estates with tenant farmers who gave 10% of their crops to the landowners and now were obliged to do so for the new landowners, the church.

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