Chapter 2 The Building

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jim London on January 13, 2011 at 10:25am

Cindy, I'm sorry. In addressing Mark, I deliberately wrote such over-the-top ridiculous things, satirically using all the cliches that I've heard during decades of "church" life, that it never occurred to me that someone might take my words seriously. It was all tongue-in-cheek. In retrospect, I probably could have employed a happy face, wink, wink. I just thought the silliness was apparent. At least we discover that we're on the same page! All the points that you have made are givens with me. My attempt at humor was premised on the assumption that those points would already be embraced by folks involved with this thread, and that we would be enjoying the goofiness together!  

Permalink Reply by Mark Collings on January 13, 2011 at 7:49am

Thanks for gently correcting me Jim.  Don't know what took over me.  ;-)

Permalink Reply by Jim London on January 13, 2011 at 11:39am

Mark, you mentioned that a sermon on debt retirement was a turning point for you. The last few weeks of December are nail-biters for church boards of management and pastors. Will the budget needs be met? That phenomenon carries a couple of torments for me. On the one hand, I'm so disappointed that the money crunch doesn't at least stir the question of whether there is a better way of doing things. It usually just means a postponement of expenditures toward the wishlist, and heightened energy toward fund-raising. But beyond being disappointed, I'm grieved -- yes, for the misappropriation of "tithes and offerings" but also for the debilitating effect upon those who are charged with making things happen -- "pastors". In that system, their performance is largely measured by the happiness level of the congregants, and cash flow, especially if there is prolonged shortfall, puts the effectiveness of their ministry under serious scrutiny. I have many friends in vocational "pastoral ministry" who either endure years of soul-sucking joyless "service" because of it, or who have finally exited "the ministry" to work in retail or real estate or financial services (none of these require the years of training required for pastoral jobs). They are disillusioned, crushed, some of them divorced, and some of them clinging to waning faith in whether there is a God or whether He is anywhere present. It's a great sadness. They are the toughest ones to comfort. 

Permalink Reply by Mark Collings on January 13, 2011 at 12:47pm

I have a friend who just left his job as pastor of a healthy church.  He did so because the congregation wanted a traditional "command and control" pastorial leader and did not want to move into a more inclusive, community model of church order based on mutual submission and spiritual gifts, whcih he belived was the way to go.  Not quite organic church, but more in line with the biblical model.  I hope to have him and his wife work with our group, teaching us and equipping us.   There is a lot of conditioning around the use of money and property in kingdom activities that has to be undone for me.  But I know in business, overhead is always the killer.

Permalink Reply by Scott McCrae on January 13, 2011 at 7:00pm

Mark, looks like you are being blessed with your friend coming and sharing.

 

The money being free to minister with is a great plus for me. Debt is a killer is so many ways.

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